• arendjr@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    30
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    2 days ago

    I would argue that because C is so hard to program in, even the claim to machine efficiency is arguable. Yes, if you have infinite time for implementation, then C is among the most efficient, but then the same applies to C++, Rust and Zig too, because with infinite time any artificial hurdle can be cleared by the programmer.

    In practice however, programmers have limited time. That means they need to use the tools of the language to save themselves time. Languages with higher levels of abstraction make it easier, not harder, to reach high performance, assuming the abstractions don’t provide too much overhead. C++, Rust and Zig all apply in this domain.

    An example is the situation where you need a hash map or B-Tree map to implement efficient lookups. The languages with higher abstraction give you reusable, high performance options. The C programmer will need to either roll his own, which may not be an option if time Is limited, or choose a lower-performance alternative.

      • witx@lemmy.sdf.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        20 hours ago

        And how testable is that solution? Sure macros are helpful but testing and debugging them is a mess

      • arendjr@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        2 days ago

        I’m not saying you can’t, but it’s a lot more work to use such solutions, to say nothing about their quality compared to std solutions in other languages.

        And it’s also just one example. If we bring multi-threading into it, we’re opening another can of worms where C doesn’t particularly shine.

        • KRAW@linux.community
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          2 days ago

          Not sure I understand your comment on multithreading. pthreads are not very hard to use, and you have stuff like OpenMP if you want some abstraction. What about C is not ideal for multithreading?

          • arendjr@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            2 days ago

            It’s that the compiler doesn’t help you with preventing race conditions. This makes some problems so hard to solve in C that C programmers simply stay away from attempting it, because they fear the complexity involved.

            It’s a variation of the same theme: Maybe a C programmer could do it too, given infinite time and skill. But in practice it’s often not feasible.

      • arendjr@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 days ago

        Well, let’s be real: many C programs don’t want to rely on Glib, and licensing (as the other reply mentioned) is only one reason. Glib is not exactly known for high performance, and is significantly slower than the alternatives supported by the other languages I mentioned.

          • arendjr@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            2 days ago

            Which one should I pick then, that is both as fast as the std solutions in the other languages and as reusable for arbitrary use cases?

            Because it sounds like your initial pick made you loose the machine efficiency argument and you can’t have it both ways.

      • calcopiritus@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        2 days ago

        Glib us licensed under LGPL. So unless your project is happy with that, it’s as if it didn’t exist. That’s one of the problems of having a small standard library.

        • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          2 days ago

          It’s one of the more permissive licenses - who the hell is going to have a problem with lgpl? You can ship it with proprietary applications.

        • aubeynarf@lemmynsfw.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 days ago

          It’s a single counterexample. there are many, many such libraries for C and the programmer does not have to roll their own.