I thought even a couple police could get killed and it could still be considered a peaceful protest, like January 6
Lol a letter?
“Give us all your information or else.” Is what that letter says.
Get fucked Hawley.
that Hawley? ROTFLMAO. Yeah get fucked, josh!
“Referral for criminal investigation” is very much not an idle threat, and their absurdly sweeping record request was probably made with that in mind. If there’s something missing (or just something they say is missing), they can go after and make an example of the “socalist instigators” behind california’s rebellion against trump, retroactively justifying his deployment of troops in the face of what now is “clearly” an organized campaign of sedition.
Since this is just a letter and not a subpoena it has no legal authority behind it and is essentially a checklist of records to immediately destroy.
Edit:
So this may be a legal Subpoena. The organization should clarify with a lawyer and if it does not reach the legal threshold destroy those documents.
Committee rules may provide for the full committee to issue a subpoena, or permit subcommittees or the chairman (acting alone or with the ranking member) to issue subpoenas…
I dont think it requires a full formal subpoena for something to be considered a legal order, so non-compliance with the terms in this letter could easily be held as contempt of congress. (the record preservation part, at least. The rest is a 1st amendment SCOTUS case just waiting to happen).
Edit:
So, kinda yeah…?
I’m fairly certain you need something more official than a signed letter, but I’m not a lawyer.
So consult a lawyer and then if legal destroy those records
What is a subpoena, if not a signed letter from an agent of congress directing either testimony or production of information? Its possible this letter in itself could be considered a subpoena, since it was delivered in an official capacity. The only formalisms I’m aware of are guidelines and convention, which don’t really mean anything anymore, and this letter seems to fit all the definitions I can find. I know it’s a dumb question to get hung up on since obviously “talk to a lawyer” is the #1 thing to do here, but still it’s an interesting question as to how legally binding an order in a form like this actually is.
A subpoena is a court order. Courts do not equal Congress. Separation of powers, and all that.
Edit: To clarify, courts don’t issue subpoenas, they sign off on them. Because this hasn’t been issued as a subpoena or signed off on by a court, it’s not a subpoena and cannot be construed as one. At least, within the bounds of the law. Which as we’ve seen don’t really matter at the moment.
Congress can absolutely issue subpoenas itself. Courts can rule on the legality, but they do not have to issue them on behalf of congress.ty for the edit I see what you meant now.
So I did a bit of a dive and this is what I found:
Committee rules may provide for the full committee to issue a subpoena, or permit subcommittees or the chairman (acting alone or with the ranking member) to issue subpoenas…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress
So clarify with a lawyer and ensure that this action was taken under full legal authority and it likely was. I will edit my main comment to prevent the spread of misinformation
No need, subpoenas are obvious and in fact of they aren’t obvious they aren’t a subpoena. Almost every subpoena from Congress the Senate or otherwise will have some variation of “subpoena duces tecum” in the header or the phrase you are “ordered” or “commanded” to appear or provide whatever.
To Nixon https://www.justsecurity.org/61535/congress-subpoena-trump-testify/
Charles Mitchell https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/investigations/image/Pecora_MitchellSubpoena_display.htm
A legal order must be served and authorized by the courts. A legislator has no means to do this without a subpoena.
What? No it doesn’t - the courts can rule on a subpoena once given out, but congress absolutely can issue them itself
without certification from the courts.(edit: I’m actually unclear about this requirement, it’s quite possible you’re correct in that the courts must endorse an issued congressional subpoena) That’s a cornerstone of the separation of powers.Congress can issue a subpoena.
This is not a subpoena.
Nah, this is a letter from a single congressmen listing all his committes to make it look scary and official. Contempt of a congressmen isn’t contempt of Congress.
Isn’t that what a subpoena is? A letter from a duly authorized congressman or comittee directing production of information or testimony?
No subpoenas in Congress are by quorum so one name listed that isn’t ranking chair and with the proper verbiage is simply a scare tactic.
From Wikipedia:
contempt of Congress has generally applied to the refusal to comply with a subpoena issued by a congressional committee or subcommittee
So the question becomes is this Hawley or something the committee/subcommittee voted to send? It reads like Hawley to me, but IANAL.
Yeah, thats what I’m curious about. I don’t know how much of this is formality and how much codified procedure, but it seems fairly plausible that this letter could be reasonably considered a subpoena - or at least, non-compliance could be considered contempt of congress.
Never do that by the way. You don’t want destroyed documents you want plausible deniability and no direct link to recovery. If you are charged with spoliation generally whatever is claimed to be in the document that was destroyed is held as true even if it may not actually be true.
Essentially it can harm you much much more then help.
this will be news when liberals start waking up to the reality they’ll need to start throwing cocktails. until then for those on the left this is standard expected behavior by fascists. not much we can do about it without populace support.
its why antifascist groups take operational security seriously from the get go.
credible reporting now suggests
Uh huh. ‘Credible’
Congratulations to the PSL for growing big enough and true to their own values to the point that the government has pushed for your ban
See you underground
PSL definitely deserves to be in the ground, fr fr.
It’s nice to have some dudes on Lemmy that consistently demonstrate what the wrong take on everything is
tHey SuppIoRt tHe CcP sO I’m gLaD tHE fAsCIsTS WaNt tO MuRdER ThEm
Yes that Unironically that, let both authoritarian factions tear each other apart until none remain.
Fuck yourself fascist
No fan of psl’s authoritarian apologia but true to the stereotype the Marxist leninists continue to be the ones organizing most on the ground. See them at a lot of protests here in the bay area and a lot more of the disruptive ones compared to dsa who like to keep an eir of respectability and don’t want to be associated with burning waymos.
Dont obey the fascist nazi regime!!!
Okay sure but those were actual socialists and these guys are just CCP shills.
First they came for the CCP shills …
I think the quote may be lost on you sadly
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say there definitely aren’t any records of #5 lol
But they really seem convinced there are paid protestors. Is the GOP really paying all these COD cosplayers that show up at street corners on Thursdays to yell about the gays?
These rich folks, can’t imagine crashing on a friend’s couch or floor.
If they don’t have the listed information, that must be proof they destroyed it and are guilty! /s
LMMFAO! As if someone needs to pay me to protest fascism. Get a grip, loser.
What’s the institutional letters version of “Fuck off and come back with a warrant”?
The presidential administration doesn’t own all the courts yet. They only have so much prosecutorial staff. Just like every other level of struggle against this regime, the correct strategy is to drown them with overwhelming numbers. Any institution that gives an inch to their demands is failing the resistance, failing their peers, failing solidarity. They’re going to try to destroy you in the end no matter what, always better to force their escalation immediately in order to exhaust them. Remember, authoritarian tyranny requires vastly more work, upkeep, and energy than any other system of organization.
“Oh yeah? Well, ‘credible reporting’ says you suck!”
Burnnnn
What is with the weird artifacting around some of the text?
Do I look like I know what a jpeg is?
I’m familiar with jpeg artifacts and while this looks similar it’s only showing around certain text.
Not sure but my office has a xerox printer/scanner. When you select that you scan a text document it will try to make it cleaner and it will look something like this.
Oh Hawley, they will come for the closeted Republicans eventually.
I gotta tell you, I’m not a fan of this administration OR Josh Hawley OR the PSL who openly support the CCP.
They can all pretty much go to hell, that would be cool with me. I do not think it will have any large impact on the protest scene. If winning a Civil War relied on support from the Chinese Dictatorship, I’d honestly rather lose.
