If ONLY there was SOME WAY to Know this would Happen BEFORE the Election!
-Republicans who Do Their Own Research!
Can anyone explain how people with undocumented immigrants in their family were tricked into voting for trump? Makes zero sense to me.
Morons, they are morons.
I wouldn’t rule that out, but I also wouldn’t jump straight to that conclusion. Spanish news media in this country is beyond screwed, it skews even more right-wing as a rule than English mainstream media, in my opinion. During the 2020 election, I would watch the news on Univision with my mother-in-law sometimes, and would see them just not translate something a democrat said in English that didn’t fit their agenda, misrepresent what they said in the translation, or selectively omit things they said to make their remarks sound much more sinister and authoritarian than what they actually said. They were also constantly pushing right-wing conspiracies that had been debunked weeks or months prior, with no mention of their having been disproven.
I would constantly have my mother-in-law coming to me asking about these old ass conspiracies, because with her only knowing Spanish, that would be the first time she heard of them, and she was shocked we weren’t freaking out about it.
More leaning to the morons side, despite how Fox likes to portray immigrants as a monolithic group of rabid socialist and commies backing the Dems so they can destroy the constitution and get gulags up and running, a lot of immigrants from Latin America, Africa and the Caribbean have been fairly conservative, in my experience. A lot of them grew up heavily propagandized by right wing regimes in their home countries, many are much more religious than your average American by birth, and others have had negative experiences with nominally left-wing regimes in their home country that they can’t get over. The last one can be kind of understandable, but the other two drive me crazy.
My parents escaped Communist Yugoslavia to Australia. Even I started off right wing until about age 30. Therein I voted Greens (not like the dodgy US Greens BTW) and after a while convinced my parents too.
I am still aware of how the extreme left can become authoritarian as happened in Yugoslavia. Tankies are oblivious. Need to be vigilant whichever party you side with.
i take issue with calling tankies left, them saying they’re leftists doesn’t make it true. “nazi” comes from “national socialist”, but that’s obviously not what they actually were.
Am not sure that any label can really work perfectly anyhow. I posed to an Australian Greens Senator in the pub the following:
If Greens ever become one of the two major parties then the ruthless power seekers will gravitate towards your party instead of the current major parties. How will the party be able to spot the wolves in sheep’s clothing?
His answer was “I don’t know. We discuss that often.”
Which struck me as the response of an honest and genuine person.
Seems like we need some left leaning Spanish outlets
This is harsh but it definitely seems like a fundamental lack of critical thinking. I genuinely have trouble understanding this behavior otherwise.
I read somewhere that none of Trump’s talk of mass, indiscriminate deportation was translated, like in their Spanish language ads. All of the Spanish language ads were supposedly geared towards “nooooo lmao we’re only going to deport violent criminals and drug lords!”
Hmpf; propa mother fucking ganda style.
/ed:your comment is actually really insightful.
They’re lying. They weren’t tricked. Trump openly and repeatedly showed how he felt about immigrants of all kinds. Everyone knew it, everyone knows it, everyone will always know it.
What actually happened is that these people decided to focus on other things. They told themselves a story about how bad the Democrats are, perhaps, which isn’t that hard because there are so many dirty politicians in Washington.
Also, even immigrants can be racist. It’s easy enough for someone to think that the other group of “bad” minorities will be targeted, not their own, because they too want someone to spit on. The same thing is true for many poor white MAGA voters too, right? Trump’s policies are devastating for rural America, but if you’d rather have hate than healthcare, you’re getting what you voted for.
They’re lying. They weren’t tricked. Trump openly and repeatedly showed how he felt about immigrants of all kinds. Everyone knew it, everyone knows it, everyone will always know it.
This is a cruel delusion you tell yourself, obviously the people you are referring to exist and there are lots of them and they should be shamed the way you are shaming them but there are far more scared, desperate people who feel as total strangers in a crowd of faces that stare at them as if they don’t fit in that you casually throw under the bus along with the genuine fascists… and make that mistake at our peril my friend.
Plenty of people were tricked, no not everybody knew it, heck tons of people didn’t even know Biden had dropped out of the presidential race when they went into vote, and no matter how you feel about it I simply will not let you make negative conclusions about immigrants and other minorities that were tricked into voting against their interests without any actual evidence to back it up.
Cite your sources, or stop claiming that immigrants and others weren’t tricked. This is a toxic narrative and it must be stopped in its tracks.
It is our job as leftists to speak to these people who are afraid and say “don’t take my word for it, see how these people who claim to support you are trying to kill, maim and destroy you and your families”, and NOT our job to lambast these people for entering into a cruel battle royale for reasons we could only really ever judge if we were in their shoes and doing badly.
Plenty of people were tricked, no not everybody knew it, heck tons of people didn’t even know Biden had dropped out of the presidential race when they went into vote
Yoive set a really really low bar there for personal responsibility. At some stage adults have to take responsibility for their actions.
If you are so disengaged from US Politics you wern’t even aware BEFORE voting that Biden wasn’t on the ticket, then yes, YOU are to blame for that complete disengagement from democracy. I’m not saying you have to be up to speed with the minutiae of wording across the policy space but to not even be aware of the candidates ?.. come on, they shouldn’t even be let out of the house, let alone voting ffs.
Same as many other trump voters, pure disillusion and desperation with the status quo. They buy the lie instead.
Not sure about this woman, but my naturalized citizen mother is not used to English so she just constantly watch anti-Democrat propaganda from WeChat. 🤷♂️
Edit: I mean we are all legal, but my dad is still a PRC citizen. My grandmother (mother’s mother) is still a PRC citizen too.
I guess people seem to just expect the rule of law to be upheld… 🤦♂️
There’s anti-democrat ads even on Chinese social apps?
In China, probably no.
But these ads/propaganda targeted at Chinese-Americans. The “Migrant Crisis” is one of the big things they push. Although, I’m not sure if that’s CCP doing it, or if its just a conservative dickhead in the US posting those shit, and WeChat merely amplifying it. My mom keep telling me about how "Democrats in NYC is letting too much ‘mentally ill’ homeless people live near Asian-American communities and about that prison they plan to build near NYC Chinatown.
Like why blame “Democrats”, thats more of a “politician” thing. A MAGAt would in power would build something worse, a MAGAt would just wall-in every non-white in a ghetto.
And there’s this rhetoric about “illegal immigrant stealing benefits”, like just tax the fucking rich already.
Yup; in general China stands to benefit most in the long-term with a second Trump administration. Economic projections are that they will take over the US as the world’s largest economy, and when that happens - it will shift global spheres of influence, especially with the US digging itself so far into debt and isolationism.
We’ve hosted a bunch of European exchange kids over the years, and they tell us that it already feels like the EU is realigning with China away from the US.
Immigrant here. No english means same info from the internet. Usual thought process goes :
“Right are working class farmers so left must be the CEOs. Like in my country except they are switched. Makes sense.”
First time maybe, second term there is absolutely no excuse
Some people (~30%) can’t separate reality from fiction.
Colonialism cannot simply subjugate minorities with violent force alone, it isn’t enough to turn people against their homes.
Colonialism must divide people with fear and make them pick sides against their heart so that the oppression of Colonialism is distracted from by the oppression of people hurting each other as they try to claw their way up through brutal racist, classist conditions all the while being lectured by white people.
It doesn’t have to make sense to you why people would vote against their interests, you must simply understand that it is essential for authoritarian control and thus rich people have gotten very good at convincing people to do it in the US.
You can only have a class based system where certain groups are excluded from enjoying decent lives if there is always a sales pitch being made to a minority group that if they betray their own interests to help white people come out on top again then they will be let into the white club. Whiteness dies without that and yet whiteness can never really let anybody in who isn’t white without dying itself.
Focus your anger on the immense incongrituities of this situation not the fact that it hurts people so bad they can’t see clearly with their heart anymore.
Fascists aren’t people. Logic and self interest does not apply.
It’s all libidnal desire to not think, a rejection of a world that demands they grow and change. A rejection of complexity, of knowledge, of responsibility.
Critical thinking does not apply. Their whole way of being runs counter to that. There is no self awareness, no imagination¹, not even self preservation.
Even what you and i think of as communication serves a different purpose for them. It’s like the husks from ‘mass effect’ but more so.
¹older versions of fascism actually had imagination. It was a thing. Filtered out; creates too much complexity.
Careful here… while I agree with your anger, you’re using the same language used to dehumanize vulnerable populations. Everyone, including horrible people like Steven Miller, deserve basic human dignity. They deserve fairness, due process, and every human right. But unrepentant fascists don’t deserve our attention, our sympathy, forgiveness, or reprieve from justice (repentant ones are more complex and not addressed here).
To treat them as less than human is to risk becoming like them. When you fight monsters, you must take extra care to avoid becoming a monster yourself, after all.
There’s this thing they do. Basic schoolyard bully shit. Accusing someone else of the thing you’re gonna do, so when you do it, the victim sounds like theyre just copying you.
I’ve read neitzsche, by the way. There’s a lot of nuance to what that part actually means. Just quoting it to excuse the libshit you already believed (or think you do) is kind of missing the entire point of that philosophy.
Fully agree with you, and touché on the glib use of the quote. I wasn’t trying to invoke the full depth of Nietzsche. I’m merely cautioning against crossing the line between condemning disgusting actions and labeling the people themselves as disgusting. I’m appealing to humility and humanity: a recognition that we aren’t inherently “better” than the worst of them. In order to be different from them, we have to act differently.
We don’t have to agree, we don’t have to sympathize, but failing to see their humanity no matter how unconscionable their actions blurs the line between us and them, and that’s a line I prefer to keep as clear as possible.
I am curious what you see in my comment that is “libshit”, though. I don’t personally see how the invocation of human rights and dignity is liberalism by any reading.
Sorry for the wall of text, but so often your position is espoused by reactionary bigots who think being born the right species is inherently virtuous, that there’s a fundamental mystical essential ‘humanness’ to give us some baseline value, and that nothing else could ever deserve those considerations, and call me a monster for considering fucking nuance, or the ways i am, as a human, capable of sucking. It’s uncannily close to fascism and i can get somewhat emotional about it.
You’re good. :)
People are hurt right now, and hurt mammals respond defensively (universally AFAIK). Without pretending to understand what’s going on in your life right now, I want to let you know that I see you. I’m sure your anger is justified.
And if you think I’m preaching from some pulpit, I’m not. I am using writing this reply to avoid engaging in a situation that has a good chance of triggering some of my own recent trauma. I’m also not someone who uses the word “trauma” in the recent pop-psych sense. I mean it in a clinical sense.
Even though I disagree with some of what you’re saying and believe it is counter-productive to the end goals that I think we share (assumption based on your comments), I don’t think you’re a monster. You deserve the space to be angry and to express that, as does everyone.
If you’re willing, I’m interested to learn how I could better express my position succinctly without crossing into the rhetoric that you have read as close to fascism. That’s not who I am trying to be and I would like to learn how to do that better. No obligation. I already appreciate your willingness to engage in good faith.
(working on response to other comment, but it’s more nuanced)
Have you actually read fascist thinkers? Autodehumanization is often a conscious aspiration.
And as someone who gives a shit about animals who arent human, who read too many sci novels as a kid:
Human and person ate not synonyms. ‘Human’ is dtrictly a biological thing. Useful for medicine, organ compatibility, etc. There’s some fundamental psychology you can assume, and be mostly right most of the time, but since humans are so fucking versatile/volatile/plastic, odds are it will almost never be 100% accurate.
Personhood is another matter altogether. I think the most depressing thing about llmbros and the last decade’s acute rise of fascism is looking at all the things i treasure and see as special about people, then looking for them in my fellow humans, and so often just finding nothing. Being unable to build/revive/attach any.
If you’re not going to flesh out and define your idea past ‘vibes’, do not ask me to respect it. That is lib shit.
you aren’t better than the worst piece of shit.
Yes i am. I worked for this. I sacrificed a pretty substantial inheritance for a shot at being a good person. More than an inheritance. And i worked for it, too.
I don’t know if i exactly hit the mark. But i spent a looooong time trying to figure out how to do that. I spent a long time trying to figure out how to figure out how to do that. I got a better than average humanities education as a kid, but i gave myself an exceptional one, and learned practical skills besides, as i came into adulthood. I applied that. I applied that to myself and to the world around me, and I’ve allowed those i loved or respected to do the same. I have never stopped growing never stopped learning. I suffered and risked for this knowledge, for these aspirations. I patched and reinforced by bones with it-literally, in some cases.
How fucking dare you tell me some fascist piece of shit that’s spent its entire life trying to be a mindless object, trying to erase all capacity and knowledge from itself until it’s nothing but obedience and reflex, is as good as me. That fucking lib shit is an insult to both its efforts and my own. I worked for my dignity, the hypothetical fascist cast its dignity off. We are not alike, fuck you for saying so.
I wont eat octopus. That was a person, a person was killed for that meal. Not necessarily a kind of person i have much understanding of. It’s an alien mind, but it was almost certainly a person in ways that matter, and eating them by choice when you have other options is vile, even if their capture/farming/death was free of suffering, which it almost certainly was not. I’ll think less of you if you would.
If you’ll eat octopus by choice, then tell me a fascist is a person, your opinion is not worth hearing; you’re just some human-chauvanist piece of shit who’s never looked in a mirror.
Empathy is a ‘weakness’ until they want some for themselves.
Empathy for me, not for thee.
This entire comm is about having no empathy.
I feel sorry for the leopards.
No. We said the same thing for the last 8 years, and people like you thumbed your nose at us like little children. Consequences of your actions.
tbf these people have been misled by tons of lies and propaganda by the republican party
Sure, and they enjoyed participating in the hateful rhetoric and the discrimination of the outgroup that entire time, made them feel superior, until they found out they were part of the outgroup themselves.
It’s interesting that they’re still unable to see the connection between minority groups. For MAGA there is no difference between trans, Muslim, immigrant. They use the racism minority groups have against each other… and that’s how we got here today.
That’s fair.
But it’s also fair to call them what they are. Fucking idiots.
All the knowledge in the world is at everyone’s fingertips now. It’s a choice to be stupid as hell.
I got a typical public education. I’m not dumb enough to vote for Republicans.
I said this exact same thing a couple weeks ago when someone was whining about “working class solidarity”. “Oh boo hoo they were conned and manipulated” How come I can consume the exact same media as them and see through the bullshit? I’m really supposed to feel sorry for them? We’ve been telling them for decades they’re being lied to; they enjoy it.
I think the point of propaganda is that it works, so they don’t realize they’re stupid and need to look elsewhere.
They shove it down their throats that the other sources are all lies so they think they’re being smart, and it’s been happening their entire lives.
So while they’re idiots, I’m not sure how much of a choice it is for a lot of them. They were manufactured that way.
The point they have with the propaganda is they hate people. “Ban all muslims” followed by a cheering crowd “build a wall” followed by cheering people. “I didnt lose the election they cheated–get them!” followed by a mob of thugs assaulting cops.
Its really not that nuanced. They just hate people. That’s all their is to it. If they don’t have hate in their hearts they wouldn’t vote for trump. He’s not even good for the economy for anyone who pays attention.
But when their parents were fed propaganda all their life and then they get born and it’s just passed on as if it’s normal, perpetuated by the ever increasing propaganda.
There’s a lot of hate out there, and some people would probably end up that way regardless, but even that is being intentionally bred through the generations. The level of hate is way beyond what it should be nowadays though if people weren’t spoon fed it all the time.
hate is not passed on like genetics.
I’ve known people who become spiteful/hate-filled over time because they like to have a punching bag, someone underneath them if they have sorry lives. Some of them just plain ol like to hate people. This is not nuanced. Some people are just terrible, awful human beings. We don’t have to cross examine their upbringing to understand this.
One of my best friends growing up around berkeley had hippy parents, he is now a racist trumper. Parents had nothing to do with it. And his half sibling is part african american. You can’t reason with shit people, and theres no point in trying to. He loudly claims that white people need their own country. He can go fuck himself without nuance.
Not by genetics no, but taught by parents and the circle they’re brought up in who are also hateful, and hateful news they’re told is the only news to watch.
Some people are terrible regardless absolutely, but the sheer amount of it were seeing right now is being generated by bad actors.
You need to have some intelligence to know how dumb you really are. The real criminals are the churches who back the grift thinking it will unleash some Christian utopia instead of the feudal system we left way back in the past when we decided Kings have got to go.
I think that there’s been more than enough time for these people to look into the man they’re supporting, definitely more than enough to sift through ‘fake news’.
See how that seems completely fucking unrealistic to expect from any MAGAt? Lies and propaganda work because the people absorbing it are actually too stupid to determine the truth and need someone to think for them.
They probably think they are getting the truth so they don’t think they need to look any further into it.
I have seen enough that I know I don’t like and I don’t agree in general with JD Vance, for instance, so I’m not going out to find redeeming qualities about him. I’m also not really watching things from him or trump for that matter. But, my brother who ended up going the opposite way of me politically, said the other day that Vance is “down to earth” and will likely go for president after trump. I see clips all the time of him speaking that show me he’s not down to earth, but I’m also not seeing clips of him tailored to show me that it is true.
I can imagine that if you’re only being fed the positive narratives of your side and only negative things about the “other” side you’re likely to think you already know what’s going on. We also know that both media and the almighty algorithms (like YouTube) will send you down these rabbit holes in the interest of views. If i don’t search, most of what I get about Vance from algorithm based social media are the memes with his distorted face. If that’s all you see, you’re probably coming away with the impression that this guy is a joke. So if you tell me he’s competent and down to earth, my initial reaction is that’s nonsense. Is he? Maybe. It’s not what I see and I’ve felt no need to look for it.
I have always been a nerd on the internet, so i have always been on these kinds of sites like Lemmy, reddit, imgur, old forums, where I can talk to people from all over the world. They have their echo chambers and little bubbles but it’s still a more diverse group of opinions than what you’re fed on sites like Facebook. But the usage on these sites is much lower, most people are not here. They’re either not using social media at all, or they’re on Facebook, tiktok, whatever. They’re only seeing the cropped images, edited clips, news that caters to what they want to believe. If everything’s telling you one thing, including things your friends and family are sharing online, why would you question it.
I understand the reality of what you’re saying.
However, and this will seem harsh, it is stupid not to question the things you’re being told. It takes a stupid person to allow themselves to be convinced to vote against their basic interests for the low, low, price of getting to be racist. It doesn’t matter if your entire world tells you otherwise.
I agree. I don’t know if I got lucky in that i have consistently been told to question things through my life by teachers, by my parents (who don’t question things anymore), by people online.
I also think it’s just how people work. What is it, every dictatorship has used propaganda to convince people they want these things? People heard trump say he needed to be a dictator for a day and they were happy about it. The only difference is it’s easier to do now i would think.
I do consider myself lucky in that regard, as well.
Unfortunately, yes — I agree. It has never been easier to convince people of ‘the truth’ than it has today. There’s an argument to be made that it’s never been easier to debunk bullshit as well, however Brandolini’s Law is still very relevant.
I’m sorry about your brother, and your parents. My mom is the only sane one in my family left, the rest are Trumpers or centrist liberals.
If this were the first time Trump was president, then fine, but it fucking ain’t.
Did someone try to mislead them? Yes. Are they idiots for believing them? Also yes. Did they turn a blind eye when it was happening to other people? Yes. Are they sad now that it affects them? Oh yes. Am I sad that they are seeing the consequences of their actions? Hell no.
Other people have been paying for their stupidity for too long. About time they do some “finding out” given how they’ve been all too happy to do some “fucking around”
This is so unnecessary. All she has to do is quit being such a cheapskate, and buy a pardon for a few million bucks. It’s really as simple as that. For $5 million he can even have a special gold HitlerPig citizenship card.
The time to come together in unity and compassion was the election. That’s long since passed now. He showed everyone exactly who he was while campaigning for his first presidency, and every single second since then.
If you were still unsure about his leadership qualities, his first presidency was filled with him throwing others under the bus, telling blatant, significant lies with every speech, betraying our allies for political gain, bungling the pandemic response and needlessly destroying hundreds of thousands of lives, spending more time golfing than doing his job, and concluded with him attempting to overturn the election by pressuring states, participating in an illegal scheme that involved fake electors, and inciting an insurrection at the nation’s capitol. Oh, and he was impeached twice.
But if racism is the final straw for you to stop supporting this draft-dodging, ableist, lying, rapist, 34-count convicted felon, great; but that was on display, too. He called places with brown and black populations “shithole countries”, issued a ban on immigration from Muslim countries, criticized Puerto Rico and dragged his feet on helping them after a devastating hurricane, pardoned Arizona racist Joe Arpaio, convicted for his illegal “worst pattern of racial profiling in US history” (DoJ), harshly cracked down on peaceful Black Lives Matter protestors, including tear-gassing them at a church to disperse them and use the location as a photo-op.
I won’t go through all the examples, but the end result is if you voted for him in 2024, you either ignored or approved of his racism. Unfortunately, it’s now affecting many innocent people, some of whom you know…
“don’t shoot yourself in the foot”
“Shoot yourself in the foot to Make America Great Again!”
“I’m telling you man, you shouldn’t shoot yourself in the foot”
Shoots themself in the foot
“WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH”
“Told you so”
So now that she’s personally affected by it she wants change lol. But trans people are illegal now so deep down it was still worth it to her.
So the guy who has been stiffing contractors for the last 50 YEARS, the guy who calls our servicemen “suckers and losers” the guy who openly bragged about just how hard he was going to fark us all over, the guy who shits in a GOLD TOILET doesn’t care about YOU?
That must have come as quite a shock.
This one took me a second, genuine lol.
Oh save your fucking tears. Your daddy wouldn’t be dying in ICE custody if it wasn’t for you.
Nah. Good luck with that though, dipshit.
Huh, now that it impacts them they want unity? Why should I trust them to not revert to their selfish ways once they get their way? Anyway
They only want a certain kind of unity, not unity for all. They still think trans people shouldn’t exist.
It is baffling how anyone couldn’t see this shit show coming. I constantly feel like I’m the subject of a long running prank.
They are sadly that stupid. I was wrapping up a job and talking to the customer ( die hard trump freak ) , typical " yeah, nice weather this weekend, hope you have a nice vacation this summer etc.".
Somehow the price of “things” comes up and this lady says "yeah it’s like the extended warranty on my car! They keep raising the rates every year and I think I’ve paid them as much as the car cost me used! But at least i know if it breaks down ill be covered "
😭😭😭 Noooo you stupid idiot ! That is a fucking scam ! Everyone knows that!
Well, they are the people that fall for all that dumb ass shit. I don’t understand how they live so long and have nice homes. I just can’t figure it out.
They knew it would happen. I don’t believe for a second anyone didn’t see this happening.
People believe themselves to be part of the in-circle as “one of the good ones”. My father is a Trump-supporting anti-immigrant immigrant. But when he says “immigrant”, he really means Hispanics and blacks, not Asians like himself.
I even know an Afghan guy who loves Trump. He grew up under the Mujahideen and then the Taliban, so he hates Islam. When Trump says Muslim countries are bad, this guy 100% agrees. He thinks he and Trump are on the same side, because he’s no longer Muslim. Trump, or course, would have him arrested and deported on sight for being brown.
Actually, that time was before the election, but you all let a lying traitorous basterd fool you all into believing he was on “your” side. Have the day you voted for!
