Agreed. There are many facets to this problem, so it’s difficult to get in one post, so I’ll try to reconcile the main points.

The core of what I’m trying to say, is don’t kill Linux trying to become Windows. Linux is great because it diverse, but it also has difficulties because of this. We should not change (nor destroy) the ecosystem for people who do not care to understand it.

That being said, we can also make it easier for people who do care and cooperate to make it over. But if we do this we, as Linux users, have to look at this from the right lens. The question is not “Linux users, what do you find difficult?”; this is survivorship bias. The question is “Windows users, why can’t you get Linux on your machine?”. From this framing, the real issues become a lot more apparent:

• Not savvy enough to set up USB stick
• Driver, and other hardware, issues
• Programs needed for work, or general daily usage, are unavailable
• Too much tinkering required (this is related to, but not the same as RTFM and CLI)

The first two points can be solved by purchasing a machine from a Linux OEM (i.e System76). If this is not possible, then you are going to have to do research; if this burden is too heavy, Linux is not for you.

AI has a good and valid use-case here, as it can significantly ease this process (even if it’s only right 60% of the time).

Linux may not have an alternative for your preferred programs; if this burden is too heavy, Linux is not for you.

Developers should follow open guidelines (i.e POSIX). If they refuse to, there is nothing Linux can (nor should) do about it.

The last point can be solved by distro choice, we completely agree here. The problem is finding said distro, which is difficult. For example, I’ve never heard of Ublue until your post. I appreciate distros that handle defaults and don’t push breaking changes. The community can make this better by having a dedicated website (with a decision tree) for choosing a distro, but this has its own set of issues.

No matter, the responsibility falls on the user to pick the right distro; if this burden is too heavy, Linux is not for you.

Linux Mint is a great distro, and I’m happy it works for you.

In terms of mass-adoption though, the fatal point is probably putting a Linux ISO on a thumb drive. Like I said prior, we must be aware of survivorship bias. You don’t care much for the terminal - but you made it through.

The people that didn’t make it through probably failed from the thumb drive step. I only say this from personal experience, because when I first installed Linux, I was very determined and came extremely close to giving up at this step. And I only got through because I happened to find an obscure forum about how Rufus needed a special setting for my machine.

P.S. I also was not tech savvy, but I wasn’t completely lost either - and I still struggled really hard here.

This is actually a really deep rabbit-hole. To avoid typing a novel, I’m going to cut out a lot of nuance.

Windows is installed by default on machines. Since people do not change defaults (many studies have been done on this), this is checkmate. As long as this is true, Linux will not have a major (20%+) market share.

So this has to start from the OEM. Several Linux OEMs exist (i.e Tuxedo Computers, System76, Framework) but they cannot compete with the Microsoft network. Those who are interested in Linux, but are not tech savvy, really really really should buy their device from a Linux OEM.

Driver issues are near non-existent on Linux OEM hardware. So software is the next step; and let me tell you, developing for Linux is rough. There are 2 window servers, 2 graphic stacks, 2 desktop environments, 2 coding standards, 2 C libraries,… you get the point. A lot of this can be abstracted, but it takes genuine work to do - and may be obsoleted in a month; meaning no company will do this.

All to say, creating “magically working” apps - even with a lot of monetary support - is a herculean task. Even Valve (who is FLUSHED with cash) gave up and just decided to make their own distro (SteamOS).

A lot of issues also just require personal tweaks due to open-source software being extraordinarily bad at setting sane defaults. With something like Windows, you can hire people to make this better. Who do you hire to fix the defaults for 300 independent projects? And will the devs even listen to them?

I could keep going, but you get the point, the buck is going to have to stop at the user for a lot of things.

The best solution (in my opinion) is to have specialized distros and have people choose from them. Want to game? SteamOS. Want to dev? Fedora. Want to surf the web? Linux Mint. Creating, and more importantly accurately listing, specialized distros will make lives easier. Leave the defaults to the devs, just download the “vibe” you want.

Windows users and Linux users are not seeking the same thing from their machines. The common mistake I often see from Linux advocates.

From personal experience, when I was a Windows user, I didn’t care (or even know) about privacy, open-source software, nor owning my machine. I didn’t care if I had to sign up for a Microsoft account, and I never changed defaults ever (except for my wallpaper). I just wanted the machine to turn-on, work, and play some games.

Why am I bringing this up? Because Linux requires the user care about their machine and defaults. You need to know your architecture, graphics card, and threat-model. You need to know what your apps are called and where they come from. You need to know what tools you need to troubleshoot (and devs will not help you). This is the biggest the pain-point of Linux. Do not succumb to the survivorship bias of RTFM or command-line.

This issue cannot be fixed from simplifying Linux interfaces (though we should do this anyway!). The soul of Linux is adventure, collaboration, and tinkering. To get the most from your machine, you’re going to have to interact with several communities. This is what makes Linux great, and frankly I do not think we should kill this for the general public - this is how you get enshittification.

The general public needs to understand that incompetence (being brain-dead) will lead to misery. It is simply the rule of the land. You need to care and you need to collaborate. We should not welcome nor accommodate users that refuse to do this.

I appreciate you so much for actually linking actionable steps

I’ve said this in another post, and I’ll say it again.

Where are the resources? Where are the leaders? Where are the groups?

People are scrambling right now because there are a million people screaming and no one leading nor taking direction. We need courage, focus, and precision to win but everyone is acting spineless, scattered, and aloof.

We need every single person online using TOR and/or a VPN. We need an underground railroad. We need protocol to fight against ICE raids. We need places to find weapons (yes, even in blue states because a lot of people still don’t own). And most importantly, as our greatest civil disobedience, we need to stop paying federal taxes. I would even like to go as far as a general strike.

So how are we going to get this and more together? Or are we instead going to sit and cry about this?

This is why “fake it till you make it” should’ve been bullied out of existence.

What is this guy even saying? No one talks like that.

It’s like being a cashier and saying “we are currently zeroed on our balances 🤓” , lmao. Not only do you not have enough info to make this claim (ever), but you were beyond incompetent with the failure.

Considering America has only increased in overall productivity for the last 30 years, I would say it’s going just fine. See the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

But according to you, the one making the claim, it isn’t. Where’s your evidence? Your feelings don’t count.

Have you ever seen the qualifications of DEI candidates? People always say DEI, but always leave out the part that their resumes are often the best.

So we agree that America has been hiring based on race, and I’ll even go further and say its been for the last 250 years - but it’s for whites. Being white is not a merit-based qualification.

Also you think America has only been falling apart for the last 15 years? Did you just forget 1985-1993? This is a troll account, but at least make the bait believable - it’s pathetic.

freedom means freedom to be able to fail without destroying your life.

Well said.

The unfortunate reality is that part of economic model is combating bad actors. A society that where the people truly believe in this can be built in a lifetime, and it will torn down by the worst among us in a decade. That is simply not a good investment.

Even in Europe, there are significant strides in tearing down what makes the people there happy and succeed (see the AfD in Germany).

This is an incentives problem through-and-through. These types of people should not, and cannot, exist in a functioning society - yet they do. The problem is that we have not figured out a good incentive-model to stop these people from gaining a foothold, so we must individually punish them for attempting to destroy the community.

This is the same exact problem with advertisers. And in the same way, we have not figured out a good way to stop them.

I would like to avoid going on a rant, so I’ll just say this - capitalism does not work. The phenomena you are describing (… now people have too low standards) is called “tyranny of the majority” and capitalism does not have an answer for this. Hence why we really need to figure something out.

As a side note, I do not think communism nor socialism are the answer either! Despite what many are led to believe, we live in primitive times and have not figured out a sustainable economic model.

Wouldn’t you just use AFS, CEPH, NFS, or 9p?

I really don’t want to be that guy, but isn’t SSHFS (FUSE) actually a terrible option when compared to an actual file-system? MacOS isn’t really missing out on much there.

The most painful part of MacOS (which makes it downright unbearable for me) is that system configuration files are XML. It’s an absolute nightmare.

People moved from Facebook to Reddit in the past because it was seen as the more community-centric platform.

This has taken a wild shift over the last 5 years; no one who moved over was hoping for Reddit becoming an ad-centric platform.

Decentralization is not a silver bullet. If lemmy.world hits 1 million users, and then a large corporation buys it, lemmy will be set back 10 years. This is an incentive problem, and no amount of workarounds is going to fix it.

We agree here, but this will not necessarily stop the rot. Companies will just approach these communities and offer the leaders massive buyouts, and then flood it with ads (see Twitch).

Communities themselves need mechanisms to punish or vandalize advertisements.

Until the community supported platform becomes an advertiser supported one. Remember they said this same exact thing when moving from Facebook to Reddit.

Running is not going to save the online community. People have been running for the last 30 years, and it led us to some of the darkest times we’ve seen in 100 years. Instead we need to fight back and strategically retreat. Change the incentive structure - make advertisers absolutely miserable, and those who leech from advertisers should be similarly flogged.

Common sense is not a “gotcha”, its common sense. I don’t know why everyone thinks this a win/lose thing.

You can find many mass killings from capitalist regimes too, its just a very pointless thing to bring up. Nazis do not care how you trade your goods. You have Capitalist-Nazis, Communist-Nazis, and Anarcho-Nazis. They are all Nazis and are not welcome.

Equating a Communist to a Nazi is total horseshit. You can also equate a Capitalist to a Nazi. Or an alien to a Nazi. But its a completely bad faith and ridiculous claim. Convo ends here - done engaging.

Small town suburbia is viable, but most suburbs (at least that I know of) are not small town - they are urban sprawl. Most of the cost is from strained infrastructure, usually due to overextending a city, which is likely not present in your town. I still would not recommend small town suburbia due to points 2 and 3, but it works.

I will note that most US suburbs are insolvent; I cannot speak for Australia. This is part of the reason why a lot of cities have genuinely abysmal infrastructure, because they cannot afford upkeep. Also keep in mind that due to point 2, property costs in the city rise because expansion becomes way more expensive because you have to tear apart suburbia.

I believe housing choice is a good thing. The problem is that suburbia almost always takes away housing choice for everyone else.

1. Suburbia is not cost viable.

Notice how suburbs are almost always built around cities and almost never on their own. There is a reason for this; they are heavily subsidized by the city and its infrastructure - eventually killing off the city due to extreme maintenance costs and uncooperative tax base (NIMBYs). This is a parasitic relationship, fullstop.

2. Suburbia is not recyclable.

It is extremely difficult to reuse suburban infrastructure for non-suburban purposes. This effectively eliminates scarce land until a patron spends 10x removing what it costs to install (not happening). This is why suburbs are often just abandoned instead of repurposed (see any rust-belt suburb).

3. Space should not come at the cost of the future.

To navigate suburbia (only viable by car) is to put massive strain on the human body and environment. We were built to walk. If you do not, you will become fat and die (see America). Cars pollute the air to no end, and “third places” can never truly be established - killing communities.

Wanting space is fine, but people should find a way to do it sustainably without harming themselves and everyone around them.

You are confused about what point you are trying to make. Capitalists have killed billions. So have nazis. Nazis aren’t welcome because of that. Neither should capitalists. You launching into a tirade about communism is changing the subject and actually strawmanning.

If you cannot see the point after this, it’s beyond saving.

I never said it wasn’t the truth, I said it was a bad faith argument. You’re bringing up the death-toll from Communism to call them Nazi-equivalents while ignoring the significantly higher death-toll from Capitalism. This is the textbook definition of deflection.

The actual reality is that, no matter what economic system you follow, if you want to kill and oppress people; you will kill and oppress people. Nazis are very clear that they want to kill and oppress people.

There are people that romanticize Communism, I do not (as I’ve said, it’s not a good system). I can still see that Communism is not calling for the death of others for social stability, even if Mao/Stalin/Putin/Xi themselves are.