I am aware of
- Sea-lioning
- Gaslighting
- Gish-Galloping
- Dogpiling
I want to know I theres any others I’m not aware of
Is there a name for the thing where you’ll make an argument with like 3 distinct points supporting it, and the other person will attack only one, and claim the whole thing is in their favor?
Like, “You can’t cast two leveled spells in a turn, and you’re silenced, and you’re out of spell slots, so you can’t cast another fireball”
“No, I have another spell slot from my ring. Fireball time!”
cherry picking
Innuendo studios has a nice series of videos on this on YouTube
Check out Rational Wiki’s page on logical fallacies https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy
Whataboutism
“Russia invaded ukraine! Putin must be held accountable!”
“Yeah well what about Iraq, 2003???”
Down with the empire! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viriathus
In 2014, the United States imperialist empire with the CIA supported a coup of a democratically elected president. This gave rise to ultra-nationalist elements in the country to come to power. Some might call these people Neo-Nazis. A liberal perspective is ignoring the fact that the United States is an imperialist empire. A liberal perspective is ignoring the fact that the United States is an imperialist empire. That now is pulling back from its soft power and moving more towards, I would say, hard power. We will live in an age of normalizing tactical nukes which are lower yield. We will continue bombing the shit out of poor people while playing both sides. Neoliberalism is a right-wing ideology. It was an attempt to end all wars by putting them on pause. But I would think because you’re alive now and you’re capable of using the internet, you would realize that we live in the era of asymmetrical warfare and proxy wars. The world relies on global trade, but now that the rich have hoarded the wealth so like all wars, All wars are banker wars, but yet there is no war but the class war. In America, we only have a service-based economy. So the only way we can produce income, other than working at a cheeseburger stand, for vapid, useful idiots of empire, is to join the military and resign ourselves to being a part of a machine that murders and commits genocide. There is a song called Love Me Love Me, I’m a liberal. And if you actually listen to the lyrics, you will realize that history is repeating itself. Depending on how young you are, you might be forced into the military sooner or later. I would learn about the opium wars and then think about how China maybe is giving us a dose of our own medicine. I would also look up the Imperial Boomerang. Or also what the military uses “blowback”. It’s up to you if you want to be a snarky liberal or some cultish tanky but at the end of the day we are reaching the singularity. We live in the lowest common denominator and the likes of Edward Bernays or maybe look up Alan Dulles you will soon realize that you live in a world that’s merely but a dream. We are master’s manage perception. We live in North Korea with the mixture of say like Disneyland but without your wallet. With Israel, there will be a pullback optically to make it seem that we’re upset with what they’re doing. But in reality, we are working in the background, handling all the background round processes and even boots on the ground. If you do not have nuclear weapons, you do not have national sovereignty, especially when because of Trump and because of Biden, sleepy, limp dick what was left of the rules-based order is completely gone. The rich will use us as pawns, and you are probably a liberal who is playing the role of useful idiot. You can, if you’d like, go online and look up the left and right paradigm. People outside of the United States, like in Europe, view us as solely a right-wing country. But we’re interesting because we’re in imperialist power. Which makes it glaringly obvious if you have full spectrum understanding that capitalism is not a long-term strategy. The world hates us and fears us because of our brutality. During World War II, the United States financed and supported Hitler. This was an attempt to weaken the Russians. And then after the war, the Catholic Church and the United States government trafficked Nazis all over the world even look up Operation Gladio. But they also sent them to South America and to the United States to work on our rocket program to fight the Russians. Now China and Russia are both capitalist countries and now communism, any little inkling of, is completely eradicated and it seems that capitalism causes a tremendous amount of violence. Now, if you look at the money supply, hyperinflation, we are synthesizing ourselves down to the lowest common denominator. We do not have any money in the system to do anything because we funnel it all to our military, which is somewhat a socialist entity in that people join the military because their poor. But even the military and the veterans are treated like shit after their service… Which is kind of funny to me Because you basically joined a volunteer army and somehow your ignorance somehow makes you not culpable for murdering people in other countries. It blows my mind. I Mean these people are somewhat victims as well as victimizers, but at the root of it, it’s the lack of self-awareness possibly reading comprehension or just even motivation due to a lethargic mind. I have lived on this planet long enough to know we are living in a spectrum of decline and things are not going to get better. I also know when I was younger I had stupid opinions and as I got older those opinions changed. I’m not too interested in the lingo of the internet, but more combating disinformation. Also, I’m not a big fan of China’s president or Russia’s president. And you have to remember they are capitalistic and they probably have imperialist ambitions. They probably would like to be the next hegemon. Anyways, it’s a can of worms and everybody’s askew. When I see bad things happen in this country or Abroad., I’m not like, oh my god, the humanity. I’m more like, oh that makes sense. Why don’t you give this document a gander and enrich yourself to a more mature viewpoint. Cheers https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/06_iran_strategy.pdf
New copypasta just dropped everyone!
This is satire right lol? The utter lack of formattinf gives it away. Otherwise it’s just totally unhinged
If it makes you feel any better society is completely fucked in say 50 years and there will be a collapse/catastrophe. You will never have to worry about this ever again.
That’s the “tu quoque”, aka “you too” argument evasion
Is there a word for dragging the argument to near-unrelated topics? E.g, post about lemmy.ml having comments on whether Ukraine has a nazi government.
I believe that’s “whataboutism”?
You forget the most common one of all, lying.
That’s part gishgalloping part gaslighting, no?
I love this idea of defining lying using other manipulation techniques when lying itself is such a simple thing in comparison
“Thought-terminating clichés”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliché
Also… I don’t think it has a name, but dubiously claiming any of these examples in an argument. Maybe it’d just be called “deflection”.
I’ve seen so many valid arguments shutdown as whataboutism, sealioning, concern trolling when they were valid arguments. It’s just as much bullshit as actually doing any of those things.
Appeal to fallacies is the self-important idiot’s way out of replying to someone’s argument.
Fallacy accusations.
When someone does not want to argue about your points they will attack the way you used to made them. If you check hard enough you can find fallacies in most online conversations. So if someone wants they could easily accuse anyone of making this or that fallacy. Some of them being also kind of subjective. Was this a valid example or was it a strawman?
They would just change the debate subject and put you on the defensive defending yourself of making fallacies.
I just usually point out this attitude and end the debate when this happens.
Is there a fallacy fallacy? where people assume that because something has a fallacy its wrong, or they accuse something of having a non-existant fallacy?
There is indeed
There are a few phallic fallacies for sure.
A fallacy matters if it’s central to proving the argument, otherwise it probably doesn’t. Eg Bringing up an anecdote, or a subjective experience as a way of illustrating a point could be said to be fallacious, but is not, if the argument is well supported enough that would stand without it.
I just had an argument where I ended my point with the words “this is a pure could have been:” and added a very likely scenario that may well could have come to pass it some events were different. Obviously it was speculation and not central to the previous argument, but in my estimation likely.
Then other person instead of responding to actual points took the last part and accused me of should’a, would’a, could’a.
Dude, yes! But not the point, also I was the one that pointed it out. The type of person that would explain to a comedian their own joke.
Man that’s such a strawman, you’re completely misrepresenting why they bring up fallacies.
The one I see the most is just playing dumb and pretending not to understand basic things
Context?
That may or may not be a technique.
Depending on what they are doing, it can be a form of sea-lioning.
Sometimes they’re genuinely dumb, but often it’s obvious that they know, and they know you know.
That would be sea-lioning.
It’s bad food. I get into bad hungry defensive moods with bad food.
I’ll give you a huge one.
Purity tests (when cosplaying as liberals). If a person isn’t super-duper liberal on every single issue then you can’t support them.
There’s tons of this on this very site. People who will tell you they’ll stay home and not vote for someone, if they only support 80% of what they seemingly want. People see this, then emulate said behavior.
Somehow, liberals would rather get 0% of what they want instead of 50% because of the missed 30% that the candidate doesn’t support.
If the 20% they don’t support is the absolute most basic of human rights, then as far as I can tell they actually support 0% of what I want.
genocide is not something you negotiate away. Some things arent for sale. If you choose to whore for those sweet sweet zionist paychecks, thats on you. Dont project that vileness on others.
Was this supposed to be a demonstration of projection? If so, well done.
genocide is not something you negotiate away.
Genocide is not something you stay at home for and hope it goes away on its own.
You don’t get to claim the ally if all you did was nothing.
OP criticized people who stayed home (choosing to hold on to their purity) instead of voting for the candidates least likely to perpetuate futher suffering.
Going “oh no this trolley problem is so terrible I refuse to even look at the lever” is prioritizing your own moral superiority over the people tied to the tracks.
Further
genocide is not something you negotiate away.
And such imply that we are voting to start one or not. That’s not on the ballot. The war has already started and we are asking people to vote for the side that cares more about ending it.
It really shows how privileged we are that we take a luxury of picking allies.
Even if someone is taking the position of total Palestine Victory the dems are the better pick as they most likely lead to being ableyto fight another day.
People who didn’t vote because the dems aren’t perfect are the worst allies.
Do Not Wait To Strike Till the Iron Is Hot; But Make It Hot By Striking
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People who didn’t vote because the dems aren’t perfect
It’s hard to take seriously people who describe “actively committing genocide” as “not perfect”
Damn soldier, you have a lot of luxury commenting from the front line.
Lmk how abstaining strategy is working. Read the part I wrote about living to fight another day.
Maybe take your brain out of the box and wear it.
And you are on the front line? What is your point?
And no, Democrats give Palestinians no better chance of fighting another day, that just give liberals a license to pretend the genocide isn’t happening.
Maybe you should take your brain out of your skull and wear it.
And you are on the front line? What is your point?
I’m telling you to put up or shut up. Making purity tests for what is a good ally for those actually dying is insanely tone deaf.
I agree 100% with the purity test thing, but “liberal” ≠ leftist. That’s not a purity thing, it’s a “words have specific definitions” thing.
I know idiot tankies say this, and I know they are annoying when they constantly use “liberal” as an insult… But it is technically correct that they are two distinct ideologies (with some overlap).
Sure. My point stands. A leftist will get 30-50% of what they want with a Democrat in office compared to 0% of what they want.
A toddler can work out it’s better that you get a small portion of what you want, instead of nothing. It’s really that simple.
Do Not Wait To Strike Till the Iron Is Hot; But Make It Hot By Striking
People who abstain from voting dem need to read that.
If committing genocide is bipartisan policy for the US, then what I want as a leftist is for the US to collapse.
the US to collapse.
You act like that’ll improve the genocide situation. We’re in the middle of a collapse and the new godking is ALL OVER more genocide.
The US will change hands, but it won’t be to the people…
Pretty sure u/BrainInABox is pro genocide as they don’t want to see an any move that will help Palestine… Or a 4chan troll
ohh yes, he’s 100% troll. Not my first interaction with them. I usually respond back only to talk to other people.
You act like that’ll improve the genocide situation.
A country collapsing absolutely diminished it’s ability to do genocide. Would you say Nazi Germany collapsing would be a bad thing?
We’re in the middle of a collapse and the new godking is ALL OVER more genocide.
Yes, your politicians in general are all over genocide, so the only way to stop them is for the USA to collapse to the point that they can’t.
Politicians you don’t like can make good policies and politicians you do like can make bad policies. Parties are not football teams for you to take blind sides and politicians are not celebrities to be veneered blindly. They are public servants, nothing more.
It’s a global phenomenon, but Americans are particularly affect by the false dichotomy fallacy of having the two sides of political spectrum represented when, in reality, they just have two flavors of right to choose from. Both are shit in their own way.
People love to turn off their brains and follow the leadership. That’s what makes us easily manipulable. It’s not because someone aligns politically with you that they are working with your best interest in mind.
Sorry for the random rambling.
Yeah, and you’d think that even leftists would agree that having the people in charge that want cheaper college, and cheaper medicine/healthcare would be the better option, even if (from their lens) they are a right wing party.
Not if it means exterminating whole races overseas
The 30% is active genocide
Dude, you guys don’t give a shit that Myanmar is in a civil war, Sudan is in a civil war, China is ethnically cleansing Uighur Muslims, and that India and Pakistan are in almost-open conflict.
You put the fact that a trump ally in Israel wouldn’t listen to Democrats solely on the shoulders of Biden and Harris while completely not giving a singular fuck about any of those other conflicts.
This is why people like you are the PERFECT definition of slactivists, who are looking for a reason to not get a portion of what you want so you can feel morally superior to others for not participating in democracy.
Get over yourself.
Dude, you guys don’t give a shit that Myanmar is in a civil war, Sudan is in a civil war, China is ethnically cleansing Uighur Muslims, and that India and Pakistan are in almost-open conflict.
Whataboutism.
Israel wouldn’t listen to Democrats
No. Democratic loyalists are hellbent on rewriting history to erase the truth, and to cover up the fact that the Democratic party were and are active supporters and participants in the Gaza genocide, and that is at least as dangerous as anything MAGA is doing.
This is why people like you are the PERFECT definition of slactivists, who are looking for a reason to not get a portion of what you want so you can feel morally superior to others for not participating in democracy.
This is a completely insane way to describe opposition to genocide.
Get over yourself
Stop supporting genocide
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The problem is, the other option is 70% genocide. So by not voting for the 30% genocide, you’re enabling the 70% genocide.
No, I mean the 30% of their policy that we disagree with is their 100% support for genocide.
And the republicans have 70% of their policy be genocide. Not just genocide of the palestinians, but genocide of non-gender conforming people and non-straight people.
It’s like comparing someone who doesn’t care that someone in another country is killing people, with someone who actively wants to kill people in your own back yard, and also doesn’t give a shit that someone is killing people in another country. By not voting for the first person, you’re allowing the second person do to whatever they want.
Edit to add: Democrats will let palestinians die horribly. That is bad and needs to be adressed.
But:
Sheeeeet hahaha drifting baby
It’s like comparing someone who doesn’t care that someone in another country is killing people Edit to add: Democrats will let palestinians die horribly.
See, right here: you’ve collapsed your whole argument by showing that even you aren’t willing to make a lesser argument for the actual democratic party, the one that was an active and willfully participant in genocide. You have to make up a genocide denying set of alternate facts where the democrats were just “not caring that someone in another country is killing people” (which is, again, genocide denialism) in order to present a sugar coated version of the democratic party that is actually palatable.
Democratic loyalists are hellbent on rewriting history to erase the truth, and to cover up the fact that the Democratic party were and are active supporters and participants in the Gaza genocide, and that is at least as dangerous as anything MAGA is doing.
And you keep denying that the republican administration is CURRENTLY actively supporting the genocide, along with imprisoning people in concentration camps. You’re not arguing in good faith, and I’m not wasting any more of my time on you.
Apparently the mods consider it perfectly acceptable for MBech to openly lie about me and directly insult me based on that knowing lie, but will remove my comment if I respond. Why even have rules if the mods are just going to ignore them?
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Since I am not american I may have missed something; to my knowledge no genocide got stopped or even prevented since trump once again got to power. What is your opinion on this matter?
My opinion is that doesn’t make opposition to genocide “purity testing”
It’s still happening though
I never said otherwise.
You didn’t clarify either
Ok. You didn’t clarify that you’re not a child molester either. What’s your point?
You argue with the intent to win, not discuss. You ignore counterpoints and just restate how your belief is correct. Your point is clear, but you act like no one else’s point has any merit because their “argument immediately fails”
Allowing the current administration to take control, either by voting Trump, third party, or abstaining, allowed the acceleration of the genocide and the cruelty… as well as accelerating the suffering/cruelty of other at-risk populations
But you will pick my argument apart based on how I “argued wrong” and act as if I don’t see your point… while simultaneously ignoring mine and restating yours with more words
It’s divisive and hardlined, and you don’t allow space for discussion with understanding. Your point is clear, is more than meritful, and I agree that the democrats were active participants. My point is that allowing Trump to lead his cult from the Oval Office again, is more damaging than the pushover Democrats. And that damage will be more destructive and harder to repair. And Palestinians still suffer, with even more gusto now, and every avenue to help stop it is being rapidly cut off
Does my point have merit? Is there any middle ground that you can see? Or do you prefer a factioned populace of opinions that stirs divisiveness, and allows a unified fascism to grab more ground… rather than allowing a discussion that may not end in agreement, but may allow a sense of comradery
Am I wrong, or are you just right?
You argue with the intent to win, not discuss. You ignore counterpoints and just restate how your belief is correct.
No. That’s you.
Your point is clear, but you act like no one else’s point has any merit because their “argument immediately fails”
This is a false assertion, and I don’t know why you put the last bit in quotes.
Allowing the current administration to take control, either by voting Trump, third party, or abstaining, allowed the acceleration of the genocide
No. It didn’t. You were just unwilling to admit the scope of the genocide when it was your team doing it. This why I find these lesser evil arguments unconvincing: because they always come from people who consistently deny the evil of their side.
But you will pick my argument apart based on how I “argued wrong” and act as if I don’t see your point… while simultaneously ignoring mine and restating yours with more words
Again, this is a false assertion, and I don’t know why you put part of it in quotes.
It’s divisive and hardlined, and you don’t allow space for discussion with understanding.
Again, no, that’s you.
Your point is clear, is more than meritful, and I agree that the democrats were active participants.
And yet you seem very unhappy about me disagreeing with the person denying they were active participants.
My point is that allowing Trump to lead his cult from the Oval Office again, is more damaging than the pushover Democrats.
Maybe, but it remains the case that opposition to the democratic party because they are actively genocidal is not just “purity testing”.
Palestinians still suffer, with even more gusto now, and every avenue to help stop it is being rapidly cut off
No. Again: lesser evil arguments are very unconvincing if they come from people who consistently downplay their sides evil.
Does my point have merit? Is there any middle ground that you can see? Or do you prefer a factioned populace of opinions that stirs divisiveness, and allows a unified fascism to grab more ground… rather than allowing a discussion that may not end in agreement, but may allow a sense of comradery
Right back at you, mate. You spent more words attacking me then actually making a point.
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Someone started talking about my hair in the profile picture on a discussion on another site because they didn’t agree with what I said.
When people do shit like this I just disengage. Life is too short to waste with bad faith arguments.
Ad-Hominen attack, I think its called.
Ad hominem. Yes, that’s it.
There is a series "The Alt Right Playbook" that covers a lot of bad faith and manipulative tactics, many of which are used online.
I hate the one where you call them a fascist (because they literally are) and then they come around and call you a “blue MAGA”.
like bitch, if I was “blue MAGA” I’d be making IEDs and forcing abortions on women and shit. ain’t nobody got time for that. I’m building a garden so I can fuckin eat this year.
Blue maga? I wouldn’t encourage people to vote for the Democrat party if it had any viable competition.
Anyone who unironically says “blue MAGA” immediately gives themselves away as someone to not take seriously.
Calling someone “blue MAGA” is the equivalent of saying “no you!”
However, it’s time to stop pretending like some small group of “MAGA” conservatives have hijacked the party and taken things too far. The monied interests backing Trump are the same as have been backing Republicans for decades. The Federalist Society, the Heritage Foundation, etc. Mitch McConnell has been working to fill the federal courts with Federalist picks for a long time. Picking or just outright manufacturing court cases that would set new precedents. Hell, even those thinktanks are just recent iterations of the same interest’s attempts to shape the government as they see fit. Trump is just a nepo baby turned grifter who got lucky because his grift was actually effective at attracting and controlling the loudest segment of the Republican base.
Trump just transparently said “As long as I get filthy rich, get to be king, and you keep [metaphorically] sucking my dick, I’ll keep my followers in line and use my position to put your people in power so they can implement your ‘Project 25’ or whatever.” Republicans mostly objected to him because he lacked subtlety and was transparently greedy and petty. He ignored the game of slow, subtle changes and manipulation through “decorum” that Republicans had become experts in. Unfortunately for us, that worked wonders on a subset of the population
The people who helped those Republican politicians keep getting elected and basically wrote their proposed laws noticed Trump was popular. When it became apparent that Trump’s followers were loyal, the money jumped at the chance to fast track their vision and backed him completely. They helped tweak and hone Trump’s message to amplify his grifter magic. That plus some changes to election laws around the country, gerrymandering, and likely other more covert, extralegal vote manipulation got him back in power.
You think all MAGA people are actively building IEDs.
No, I think you have the definition of that word wrong blue Maga is just the people on the left that are making money, commenting, andreacting to the shit people do on the right. CNN and MSNBC telling us the latest bullshit Trump has done is a blue Maga type behavior
I was under the impression it was the “Hillary warned us” and “Putin is behind everything” crowd, since it mirrors the MAGA saviour and conspiracy fantasies.
Oh wow. You see, Russia is behind all this, holy crap this nation is cooked. It’s fucked it’s gone. I have a person on the Internet telling me Russia isn’t behind anything and they are totally not planning the destruction of the United States because they Totally have not had a singular leader(Putin) for the last 30 or so years where we have TOTTALY NOT had disruption every four or so😏
Anyways, I looked up the definition for myself and it looks like you’re the one that’s right, At least about the Hillary part. so sorry for my rant.
Strawmanning because they won’t or can’t understand your argument, mistaking the map for the place usually because of equivocating on vaguely understood or multiple definitions, non-sequetor this is where someone just yaps for awhile based on the crap that falls out of their head based on the words they heard but didn’t get the point and is barely tracking
