Did I say mandatory? I meant optional! You’re “free” to die in a cardboard box under a freeway as a market capitalist scarecrow warning to the other ants so they keep showing up to make us more!

  • bastion@feddit.nl
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    I don’t agree with unrealized gains taxes in general, but the instant they are used as collateral, or if value in any way is extracted from them (even loan value), they become realized gains, and should be taxed.

    • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      8 months ago

      I don’t agree with unrealized gains taxes in general, but the instant they are used as collateral, or if value in any way is extracted from them (even loan value), they become realized gains, and should be taxed.

      What you’re suggesting would also mean you’re advocating for middle class homeowners to be taxed on a full value of a Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC) even if they haven’t spent a dime of it yet. Was that your intention?

        • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          8 months ago

          I believe you’re referring to rules on sale of a home where there is a capital gain, meaning you bought the house for $100k and sell it for $350k, no cap gains taxes. We’re in uncharted waters with what @bastion@feddit.nl is proposing. That user (possibly) suggesting it for HELOCs too.

          • hesusingthespiritbomb@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            8 months ago

            Okay but you can just apply the same logic to a HELOC. If you get a 30k HELOC for a bedroom renovation then it does not count towards capital gains tax.

            Even normal capital gains taxes have brackets.

            • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              8 months ago

              Okay but you can just apply the same logic to a HELOC. If you get a 30k HELOC for a bedroom renovation then it does not count towards capital gains tax.

              Wouldn’t this be a double standard if we’re applying @bastion@feddit.nl 's logic? The rich would get taxed on loaned money but the middle class wouldn’t?

              • hesusingthespiritbomb@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                That’s generally how progressive tax brackets work, yes. Technically speaking if I rich person wants to take out a 30k HELOC they’d also not get taxed on it.

              • julietOscarEcho@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                This is how… EVERYTHING works… Income tax brackets, 401k limits. I thought this was pretty obvious, from each according their ability and all.

    • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      How does this actually make any sense though? All collateral is, is a safety net to mitigate loss for a lender who lends to someone who then defaults on the loan. If the loan is not defaulted on, literally nothing happens to the collateral.

      How then does it make any sense to consider the mere act of the loan being given as a realization of the collateral, in other words, equivalent to having sold the collateral, when literally nothing has happened to it?

      This feels completely arbitrary. Using an asset as collateral is nothing like realizing it.

      • Professorozone@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        8 months ago

        And WHAT gain exactly is being taxed? So you have a $1000 investment. The government decides, what, that you are a good investor and can make 20% so they’ll tax you on $200? So if you sell it at a loss, you get screwed. If you sell it for a 50% gain the government loses tax revenue? You know what, I’ll take that deal. I’ll invest money, pay the taxes on my unknown gain immediately, keep it for 20 years and boom, tax free, because I’ve already paid the taxes on the gain. You know I’m totally on board with this whole rich people suck idea, but this is just stupid.

        • orrk@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          ok, so I understand that you don’t quite get the issue, also your bad at taxes.

          if I invest $50000 and make $100000 I don’t want to pay taxes on the $50000 I “made” (this normally would lead to the crime of not paying taxes) but if I use those $50000 as leverage on an extremely low interest loan for $50000 then I dodge having to pay anything in taxes while also, defacto, realizing my gains.

          what OP is advocating for is taxing those $50000 you put up as collateral, making these $50000 similar to the original $50000 you invested, now should you again make another $20000 from said capital, and pull out, you would still have to pay capital gains on those $20000, or do you think you have to pay capital gains on money you put in? (hence why you’re bad at taxes) because tax is only levied on the positive difference