For people like this? About the only way I care if they exercise their brain is if it’s plastered on the wall behind them. I, and a lot of others, are far past the point of “kumbaya, let’s all be friends and forgive”. They’ve taken more than they can ever repair and I wish for nothing but the worst for them for as long as they are alive. If they decide to be informed or not is immaterial. Their feefees mean jack and shit.
Whether intentional or not they voted to inflict this pain on others, to destroy the lives of hardworking innocent immigrants and to usher in a police state. They need to come to terms with that and sincerely abandon the platform before any forgiveness or healing can happen
Frankly I dont see a reason to handle them with kid gloves. They are responsible for a lot of suffering and the only chance they have at receiving basic respect from me personally is through acknowledging that.
Otherwise I do judge them for supporting fascism absolutely. I boycott their business. I refuse to associate with them in my personal life at all.
As my hometown is torn apart by ice today I loudly hope that the maga supporters feel the pain of their policies firsthand and I will not make excuses or apologies for that.
I dont know why you’re obsessed with the feelings of fascists and not with the harm they cause.
The problem I see is that I can think of 3 paths forward when 30-40% of the population thinks this way:
we can eliminate them from the population through violence, deportation, jail, whatever. That’s the same sort of genocidal behavior we’re objecting to from them, and is a nonstarter
we can override their votes, and work hard for generations to keep them suppressed. While more humane than 1, this likely isn’t feasible, and is likely to radicalize them
we turn them. Convince them that they were wrong, and bring them around to our way of thinking. This is hard work, but it’s the only stable and humane option I can think of.
So yes, much as it may suck, anything that brings about option 3 is the best action I can see. Including treating MAGA far better than they treat us.
In my experience it is impossible to change their minds through conversation. If at all possible it will take longer than is necessary for them to seize total control of the remaining institutions and perpetuate genocide.
These people do not listen to reason, every rational argument you may make that holds a mirror up and forces introspection will likely cause them to double Down - no matter how politely you do it. I do my part to plant the seed of doubt in them and walk away where possible but someone or something else has to water it. It is not a viable strategy when they are cheering and refeuling the orphan grinder for another go.
I believe we have to do all three to certain degrees. We certainly will not slaughter them or deport them en masse but we do need to physically resist - fight them when they attempt to enact their policies. These policies lead (and are leading right now) to ‘final solutions’. It is truly a matter of life and death for many. This is not overly dramatic trumps lackeys are openly using the military to invade States and enact his plans for ‘remigration’. He also openly plans to open an office of remigration to oversee his final solution.
This is a war they have started and it is our moral imperative to resist them by any means necessary. If we had resisted them physically back in the 2010s public punch a Nazi debate we’d be in a much better place today. It worked wonders for Richard Spencer, it would have worked for maga also but the mainstream successfully legitimized the right wing extremists and distanced them from their platform and supporters.
We are not responsible for their radicalization full stop. They are radicalizing themselves and being radicalized by others like them. They get there largely by mischaracterizations of situations and actions. They create an environment where they never need to admit fault or guilt or perform that u.comfortable work of bettering yourself and others. They create a world of delusions and wrap it tightly over their ears and eyes and anything you say that breaks through it reinforces that you are the enemy because you brought that fear to the surface. They will blame peaceful nonviolent resistors when the police kill them. They will dig up any little remark that may discredit the victim and if they do not find one they will invent one. They will label you a criminal for any reason if it assuages their guilt. we may as well earn it because it is going to happen.
We must show them our beliefs are strong and that we are confident in them by overwhelming them in public spaces. Every counter protest, every public event, every political race they should be provided an opportunity to look in that mirror and see what they’ve become. This is far more feasible and impactful then changing their minds in my opinion and it resists their final solutions from being given a platform. Yes they will claim any number of extraordinary things about the reason for their unpopularity but they will and have continued to do that from the start. Anti white, blood libel, enemy within etc, they will label outsiders regardless of their actions. You who want to convince them peacefully are also included.
For 3 maybe setting up a support group for those few nazis that got their seeds watered by experiencing their own policies firsthand and came to the realization that they are the baddies would suffice. The ones who sadly needed to get what they wished for before realizing how harmful it is will be the majority of your clients but maybe you can set up some 12 step program. It will likely be called a cult or criminal organization and raided so you may want to stay friendly with the people organizing around options one and two who can help you resist now that the fash are in power.
It takes a diversity of tactics is what im trying to say. We all need to resist them and invest resources in supporting their victims, and sure while picking up lost sheep along the way. We no longer have the luxury of waxing poetic at them while they kidnap kids who are citizens to lure their undocumented parents out of their homes.
I mean they’re talking to you nicely and you won’t change your mind. So why does it fucking matter how nicely they engage these hateful imbeciles? It’s a waste of time.
I mean they’re talking to you nicely and you won’t change your mind.
Because I haven’t heard logic, they have never tricked me into a corner where I would have to admit to myself “I supported evil”, “I was tricked” or “am I a hypocrite”. But if you are good enough at arguing, you could change my mind.
Unfortunately, this isn’t how it usually goes, and few people are good enough at that to convince somebody. Most arguments end with neither side convincing the other of anything important. Humans are emotional creatures, and feelings often are justified into “facts” even long after they’ve been outright proven false.
People have tried this with Republicans for at least the past 20 years, and look at where we are now. All it did was allow the racists to couch their open bigotry behind the lie of “it’s just a joke,” and respond to any real pushback against their hate with “so much for the tolerant left.”
They’re a cult, and there’s one depressing fact about cults: the deeper in someone is, the harder it is to pull them out - and after a certain point, it’s almost impossible. There’s a sunk cost fallacy to their beliefs that becomes harder and harder to shake because to admit that they’re wrong would be to admit that their actions aren’t justified and their core beliefs are bad.
They will double down regardless of how I disagree with them. Nobody can force them to see the error of their ways through conversation. Sadly jt must be a reckoning. Im all for being there to pick up the pieces once they have the realization, but I believe words are not enough to bring that about in most cases.
Sadly jt must be a reckoning. Im all for being there to pick up the pieces once they have the realization
So you won’t converse with them, and it seems like you don’t want to be involved with the reckoning, but is ready for when the difficult part is over. Did I understand that correctly?
Lol. Who talked about insulting anyone? You’re the only one insulting them by calling them stupid. I talked about empathy.
And it doesn’t sound like any of these people “come to term with their stupidity”. If they did and recognized their mistakes, I would show empathy and maybe even sympathy.
When I was 19 with a lower standard I had a racist girlfriend, whom was a former neo nazi (with multiple swastika tattoos). She had abandoned the nazi stuff before I met her, but she was still racist.
I changed her mind though. She was stupid for believing the evil was justified when it’s against “the bad people”; she got smarter.
You’re right, and I hope the people near this guy do that - just like I hope we all, if we confront this situation, act like human beings with empathy, to be better than them.
For this, though, on the internet where this guy will never see it, some schadenfreude is totally in order.
I share your view. I hold back my desire for schadenfreude by realising that the greatest punishment would be if they grew to understand the harms of their actions and views. Empathy can hurt like a bitch
When you meet a person like this, it’s tempting and easy to insult them, but that is not the way forward. They will only double down…
They need non judgemental discussions, to make them start exercise their brain for real.
For people like this? About the only way I care if they exercise their brain is if it’s plastered on the wall behind them. I, and a lot of others, are far past the point of “kumbaya, let’s all be friends and forgive”. They’ve taken more than they can ever repair and I wish for nothing but the worst for them for as long as they are alive. If they decide to be informed or not is immaterial. Their feefees mean jack and shit.
What keeps you from doing that yourself?
Back at ya.
I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t be allowed in the country, but what I have done is boycotted american goods.
What keeps you from doing that yourself?
Whether intentional or not they voted to inflict this pain on others, to destroy the lives of hardworking innocent immigrants and to usher in a police state. They need to come to terms with that and sincerely abandon the platform before any forgiveness or healing can happen
Yes, and I’m sure that you are able to do that without insults and sounding judgemental.
Frankly I dont see a reason to handle them with kid gloves. They are responsible for a lot of suffering and the only chance they have at receiving basic respect from me personally is through acknowledging that.
Otherwise I do judge them for supporting fascism absolutely. I boycott their business. I refuse to associate with them in my personal life at all.
As my hometown is torn apart by ice today I loudly hope that the maga supporters feel the pain of their policies firsthand and I will not make excuses or apologies for that.
I dont know why you’re obsessed with the feelings of fascists and not with the harm they cause.
Maybe you should practice what you preach
The problem I see is that I can think of 3 paths forward when 30-40% of the population thinks this way:
we can eliminate them from the population through violence, deportation, jail, whatever. That’s the same sort of genocidal behavior we’re objecting to from them, and is a nonstarter
we can override their votes, and work hard for generations to keep them suppressed. While more humane than 1, this likely isn’t feasible, and is likely to radicalize them
we turn them. Convince them that they were wrong, and bring them around to our way of thinking. This is hard work, but it’s the only stable and humane option I can think of.
So yes, much as it may suck, anything that brings about option 3 is the best action I can see. Including treating MAGA far better than they treat us.
In my experience it is impossible to change their minds through conversation. If at all possible it will take longer than is necessary for them to seize total control of the remaining institutions and perpetuate genocide.
These people do not listen to reason, every rational argument you may make that holds a mirror up and forces introspection will likely cause them to double Down - no matter how politely you do it. I do my part to plant the seed of doubt in them and walk away where possible but someone or something else has to water it. It is not a viable strategy when they are cheering and refeuling the orphan grinder for another go.
I believe we have to do all three to certain degrees. We certainly will not slaughter them or deport them en masse but we do need to physically resist - fight them when they attempt to enact their policies. These policies lead (and are leading right now) to ‘final solutions’. It is truly a matter of life and death for many. This is not overly dramatic trumps lackeys are openly using the military to invade States and enact his plans for ‘remigration’. He also openly plans to open an office of remigration to oversee his final solution.
This is a war they have started and it is our moral imperative to resist them by any means necessary. If we had resisted them physically back in the 2010s public punch a Nazi debate we’d be in a much better place today. It worked wonders for Richard Spencer, it would have worked for maga also but the mainstream successfully legitimized the right wing extremists and distanced them from their platform and supporters.
We are not responsible for their radicalization full stop. They are radicalizing themselves and being radicalized by others like them. They get there largely by mischaracterizations of situations and actions. They create an environment where they never need to admit fault or guilt or perform that u.comfortable work of bettering yourself and others. They create a world of delusions and wrap it tightly over their ears and eyes and anything you say that breaks through it reinforces that you are the enemy because you brought that fear to the surface. They will blame peaceful nonviolent resistors when the police kill them. They will dig up any little remark that may discredit the victim and if they do not find one they will invent one. They will label you a criminal for any reason if it assuages their guilt. we may as well earn it because it is going to happen.
We must show them our beliefs are strong and that we are confident in them by overwhelming them in public spaces. Every counter protest, every public event, every political race they should be provided an opportunity to look in that mirror and see what they’ve become. This is far more feasible and impactful then changing their minds in my opinion and it resists their final solutions from being given a platform. Yes they will claim any number of extraordinary things about the reason for their unpopularity but they will and have continued to do that from the start. Anti white, blood libel, enemy within etc, they will label outsiders regardless of their actions. You who want to convince them peacefully are also included.
For 3 maybe setting up a support group for those few nazis that got their seeds watered by experiencing their own policies firsthand and came to the realization that they are the baddies would suffice. The ones who sadly needed to get what they wished for before realizing how harmful it is will be the majority of your clients but maybe you can set up some 12 step program. It will likely be called a cult or criminal organization and raided so you may want to stay friendly with the people organizing around options one and two who can help you resist now that the fash are in power.
It takes a diversity of tactics is what im trying to say. We all need to resist them and invest resources in supporting their victims, and sure while picking up lost sheep along the way. We no longer have the luxury of waxing poetic at them while they kidnap kids who are citizens to lure their undocumented parents out of their homes.
Other than the reason I wrote? This advise is not only for facists; but everybody trying to avoid cognitive dissonance.
I mean they’re talking to you nicely and you won’t change your mind. So why does it fucking matter how nicely they engage these hateful imbeciles? It’s a waste of time.
Because I haven’t heard logic, they have never tricked me into a corner where I would have to admit to myself “I supported evil”, “I was tricked” or “am I a hypocrite”. But if you are good enough at arguing, you could change my mind.
Unfortunately, this isn’t how it usually goes, and few people are good enough at that to convince somebody. Most arguments end with neither side convincing the other of anything important. Humans are emotional creatures, and feelings often are justified into “facts” even long after they’ve been outright proven false.
People have tried this with Republicans for at least the past 20 years, and look at where we are now. All it did was allow the racists to couch their open bigotry behind the lie of “it’s just a joke,” and respond to any real pushback against their hate with “so much for the tolerant left.”
They’re a cult, and there’s one depressing fact about cults: the deeper in someone is, the harder it is to pull them out - and after a certain point, it’s almost impossible. There’s a sunk cost fallacy to their beliefs that becomes harder and harder to shake because to admit that they’re wrong would be to admit that their actions aren’t justified and their core beliefs are bad.
That certainly is a big problem, as you can see from the other comments.
They will double down regardless of how I disagree with them. Nobody can force them to see the error of their ways through conversation. Sadly jt must be a reckoning. Im all for being there to pick up the pieces once they have the realization, but I believe words are not enough to bring that about in most cases.
So you won’t converse with them, and it seems like you don’t want to be involved with the reckoning, but is ready for when the difficult part is over. Did I understand that correctly?
You did not.
So what are you willing to do?
In person sure. It’s essential for persuasion. But here let me just enjoy watching assholes get own goals.
Yes, that’s exactly why I wrote “when you meet”.
9 times out of 10 there is no rehabilitation for these people. Focus your time and energy on more fruitful endeavors.
Better to keep typing “magtard” at people, I guess…
Lol. What next? Showing empathy for ICE agents who go above and beyond to torture foreigners?
Yes, not insulting people certainly can be a slippery slope…
And not sounding judgemental while making them come to terms with their stupidity, can be hard.
Lol. Who talked about insulting anyone? You’re the only one insulting them by calling them stupid. I talked about empathy.
And it doesn’t sound like any of these people “come to term with their stupidity”. If they did and recognized their mistakes, I would show empathy and maybe even sympathy.
…Yes… A comment about insulting and coming of as judgemental, that you replied to.
They are not stupid. They are hiding their nazis thoughts but it shows when they vote. We should prevent them from voting though.
When I was 19 with a lower standard I had a racist girlfriend, whom was a former neo nazi (with multiple swastika tattoos). She had abandoned the nazi stuff before I met her, but she was still racist.
I changed her mind though. She was stupid for believing the evil was justified when it’s against “the bad people”; she got smarter.
You’re right, and I hope the people near this guy do that - just like I hope we all, if we confront this situation, act like human beings with empathy, to be better than them.
For this, though, on the internet where this guy will never see it, some schadenfreude is totally in order.
I share your view. I hold back my desire for schadenfreude by realising that the greatest punishment would be if they grew to understand the harms of their actions and views. Empathy can hurt like a bitch
Fuck them let them double down. Fucker’s will eat shit so we would have to smell it. Let it fucking burn.
That’s fine. Have you joined in on the burning?