Boy, what a self aware example that shows of so many of the issues on the right.
If others don’t have rights, you don’t either.
Bitch you asked
Pretty sure the idea of due process extends to ensuring the government respects “certain unalienable rights” that America recognizes all people are born with–that includes non-citizens
unalienable
Assemble a list of MAGAts. Denounce all of them as illegal aliens. At least a few of them will be deported.
Repeat ad infinitum.
non-american here, what is an “alien” in this context? i imagine it doesn’t mean “extraterrestrial”
edit: actually nvm, i just searched it up. why are people being called aliens? does this word even fit that role?
I think it’s the original definition of the word alien, but I might be wrong. Kinda derogatory now but still used in legal contexts
I’m an alien, I’m a legal alien. I’m an Englishman in New York
Are you the guy Sting wrote the song about?
Nope. I like my toast done on both sides.
Could we hear it in your accent when you talk?
Maybe, but I sound pretty American coming from the west coast of Canada?
Where did you think the scifi term alien came from?
It just means foreigner, people will even use it as a verb
Something is alien (unknown) to me
Alienate is to exclude
Comes from here https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/alienus#Latin
yes it’s the appropriate term with the same meaning dating back to its original latin meaning, well before the concept of extraterrestrials
Bill Clinton used the phrase “illegal alien” to refer to immigrants without legal status like a green card, Regan and Bush were very pro immigration and both gave amnesty to immigrants in the US without legal status so they could stay in the US work, and apply for legal status, Clinton beat HW Bush by attacking him for the right on immigration, stoking racist hate towards Mexicans, Chicanos, and other Hispanics, which beat Bush badly, the GOP has been as hard line anti-immigrant as possible ever since, in fact Bod Dole lost a lot of votes by saying he wanted military all along the southern boarder, and as stupid as it was then it still is today, even though the average racist American views all Hispanic peoples as Mexicans who illegally enter on foot or swimming, the vast majority of undocumented or authorized immigrants enter on planes, with legal status. Staying Legal in the US is like going to the DMV and getting your car registered, except the rules always change, your job at work can lie and say they are sponsoring you, or processing paperwork for you until you are illegal and face zero consequences, the enforcing officers can make up rules on the spot and process deportation and imprisonment against your legal rights, and even if you have a lawyer, you might never get resolution on any matter, you could end up stuck in prison without any way to sort of what got you there as “they were suspected of a crime, so we won’t be processing anything” using the unjustified arrest or detainment AS the pretext for the continued legal abuse.
where was I? oh yeah. Clinton used to say it a lot in the 90’s was a whole buzzword.
Clinton beat HW Bush by attacking him for the right on immigration, stoking racist hate towards Mexicans, Chicanos, and other Hispanics, which beat Bush badly
Bill Clinton is a racist, sex pest? Sounds a lot like Trumpy.
- Allegedly let cocaine enter Arkansas
- pardoned his own brother (after he had served the sentence)
- allegedly used state trooper to scout women and drive him to affairs
- flew back to Arkansas while campaigning for the execution of Ricky Ray Rector (who was mentally impaired after shooting himself in the head)
- endorsed the Democratic Council Leadership’s rhetoric of subtle racism
- held a press conference in Stone Mountain, home of the second rendition of the KKK
and I just picked from his presidential campaign.
Also, I don’t buy his excuse. He committed perjury.
Fucking fascists
The fifth amendment only requires due process for capital crimes. Being in the country illegally is not a capital crime, and being deported does not permanently bar you from re-entry.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
I’m not sure you understand what the word nor means.
Deporting someone isn’t depriving them of life or liberty unless they are certain to be incarcerated the moment they arrive. Which, I suppose, would be the case for those folks that were shipped off to El Salvador, but for the majority of deportees, it isn’t.
There are people here seeking asylum for threats of gang violence against them. Depriving someone of their safe refuge is depriving someone of liberty. Do you think those people should be sent back to their countries?
Well it doesn’t matter what you think because that already happened.
Seeking asylum isn’t illegal, and those with a pending petition are not considered illegal immigrants. Until a decision is made, they have temporary protected status.
Crossing the border without permission OTH IS illegal and subject to deportation. It’s not that difficult.
You realize part of seeking asylum also can involve crossing the border without permission and is codified in law?
How many of those deported by Trump did have a pending petition for asylum?
I’m assuming you are conveniently ignoring Trump’s executive orders that severely limited options for seeking asylum and instead are asking people to search innumerable records to distract from the inhumanity of your position?
Can’t deport asylum seekers if seeking asylum is illegal after all.
May those who find themselves with the power to judge your fate have the mercy and compassion you so clearly lack.
Dozens so far, apparently: https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/trump-deported-238-venezuelans-el-salvador-dozens-have-active-asylum-cases-2025-04-01/
This doesn’t include the random hair dresser or the guy who they admit shouldn’t have been deported at all and wasn’t illegal but won’t get him back anyway
Sure until they decide you no longer have your temporary protected status. It doesn’t even matter if you’re a citizen, you have an autism awareness tattoo? Have fun in El Salvador
A petition for asylum does not HAVE to be accepted. Once it’s been denied, you do indeed lose your status, and you’re generally expected to leave the country.
But tell me, please, how many of those who have been deported by Trump had a pending petition for asylum that was ignored?
Tell me, how do they determine if you actually are a citizen or not without due process?
There are two ways to become a citizen in the United States:
- By birth
- By naturalization
Both are attested by government certificates. Do you really think the government does not have access to those records? If someone is not found in either of those, what are the chances that they have a valid claim to citizenship?
Do you not know what “due process” is, then?
The government checking a database for records and ensuring those are correct and in line with the information the accused has (via a judicial body), IS DUE PROCESS.
What are the chances? This isn’t the fucking casino, it’s people’s legal rights, which are also YOUR legal rights, and they are proved by evidence, not odds.
Not giving someone due process, means they don’t have to look at those government documents (and they haven’t been in several cases and admitted it). That means YOU, they can refuse to look at your ID or say it is fake, refuse to let you prove it in court- THAT’S DUE PROCESS
NONE of this, and I can’t emphasize this enough, is about these people’s actual legal citizenship status or not, so your first two points are mind-numbingly bad. Whether you get your day in court is how we determine ANYTHING in this country so we MUST grant it, or else they own your body and self and can just kidnap you anywhere, literally.
You’re a fucking idiot.
The government checking a database for records and ensuring those are correct and in line with the information the accused has (via a judicial body), IS DUE PROCESS.
Okay, so when ICE goes to arrest people for whom they have no immigration records, they’ve already done their due process then, haven’t they. Glad we agree here.
No, that’s NOT due process.
Just admit you don’t know the phrase.
You just said that it was. I literally quoted you.
No, you didn’t.
Okay, so when ICE goes to arrest people for whom they have no immigration records, they’ve already done their due process then, haven’t they.
That’s not what due process is. Please, get lead chelation therapy asap
And while I’m at it, suppose someone is born in the US but not in a hospital. They’d have the claim but not the papers to show. Fuck 'em?
cool great, but those are voluntary processes and the birthright is a right by birth (5head), not by paperwork.
Birthright is not an excuse for not filing the required paperwork.
It’s not required. You have birthright from being born. This question was settled in 1898:
A child born in the United States, … becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States, by virtue of the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution, “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
That 14th amendment is unqualified. The paper is a bureaucratic expediency.
I invite you to try to find case law that reaches the opposite conclusion.
We doin law by statistical probability? What are the odds their kid flushed their papers down the toilet that morning. They just SOL?
There’s a process for determining citizenship and “that tattooed guy with brown skin looks illegal. Send him to the torture slave camp” aint it champ. He even had his papers. Try again.
If the kid flushed down the papers they’ll still be the government database, won’t they.
You dodged the actual point tho. people are owed due process and the presumption of innocence and snap jusgements are instead being made on the color of people’s skin. And again, that football player they sent to el salvador had a fucking greencard, he was a legal resident.
this isnt nazi germany pal, you dont just go up to people and demand their papers and then send them to a fucking camp whether they have them or not.
Can’t tell if you’re a lying fascist or uninformed
If “due process” only applies to US citizens, then no one has due process. Because all they have to do is claim you’re not a US citizen and then there’s no due process by which you can refute their claim.
Yes but understanding that requires second order reasoning skills, and most Americans don’t even have first order.
I just got a few days ban from reddit for saying it’s the people’s responsibility to overthrow tyrannical governments and that there’s a blurry line, but it’s on the deep end when people are being detained without due process.
That’s because the fascists control all mainstream media, “social” and otherwise. The sooner people properly internalize the implications of that fact, the better off we’ll be.
The right of the US to establish and enforce any law is implicitly dependent on a fundamental right of people to reject the authority of a tyrannical government. Otherwise the legitimacy of the US as a sovereign nation is invalidated.
Bold of you to think that the US has ever had legitimacy as a sovereign nation.
I mean yes but also this is literally an argument that was used to deny african americans rights that they weren’t citizens of any country so had no for example “due process”.
It states all ‘persons’ not all citizens. It comes off as them not knowing this. Blatant ignorance of the constitution.
“Don’t care.”
Not just blatantly ignorant, willfully choosing to ignore the Constitution even when confronted with it.
Probably a White House official then
ahah, but you see, to them only us citizens are persons,
That’s demeaning
that’s the point
People in my country complaining that the world hates us. Me stuck and broke can’t go anywhere, but I had renounced my citizenship, not formally, years ago. Atleast the allegiance part.
A reminder about your rights. If the government can declare you to have an attribute that negates your rights, then you have no rights.
In laymen’s terms, if ICE arrests you and fast deports you, whose going to stop them? Okay but you get to a consulate in the foreign country and get back home. When you come out of your lawyer’s office (because you’re suing ICE), ICE arrests you again, this time as a criminal illegal alien because you came back in. They tell no one they have you, they tell no one where you are. You have no rights according to them. You are sent to an El Salvadoran prison in contravention of a court order not to deport you.
These are all things that have happened separately. We’ve accidently deported Americans. We’ve deported Americans on purpose. (Trump sent American kids away so he could deport their parents too) We’ve deported someone to an El Salvadoran prison in contravention of a court order.
If they don’t have rights, then neither do you because the government can just declare you a member of that group and as long as the guys with guns maintain that fiction, nobody can stop them.
This is also why the attacks on identification documentation for transgender people should concern everyone. We used to consider ex post facto laws unconstitutional - even things like sex registry acts have been historically controversial because they were adding a punishment that had not been previously ordained.
I spent $5500 that I could not afford (as in, I ended up having to do sex work to pay for it) - to get my “irreversible and permanent” surgery that the state I lived in said would qualify to have my legal sex changed. Like, I would have preferred to wait until I was in a more financially stable situation or might not have even bothered because I didn’t even really need to bind to pass - but the drivers license with an “F” is a problem once you have a full beard.
I followed their rules, I played their games. And now they get to say, nope, doesn’t count anymore. That’s not how the law is supposed to work.
I’m so sorry, I don’t think we live in a country subject to rule of law anymore though.
I’ve gotten the excuse to read both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution itself, out loud, with teenagers several times recently. Jefferson was a hypocrite and fuckwit that made money off of the back of child labor and raped the women he owned, but those words do have meaning. Any government calling itself the US that does not heed those words is not legitimate.
Yeah legitimacy is a thing so many people don’t understand. And it’s why they want to cloak their actions on official language and procedure. We would riot if they just disappeared people. So they make it seem like they aren’t just doing that.
A reminder about your rights. If the government can declare you to have an attribute that negates your rights, then you have no rights.
Any time someone claims that some group of people should have no/reduced due process, I respond essentially the same way: “If you believe that $GROUP shouldn’t have due process then you are a $GROUP_MEMBER. Prove you’re not without any due process.” Before this year, it was mostly people accused of sexual assault, but illegal immigrants are the new target of choice as people who allegedly don’t deserve due process rights.
…PHP developer?
Even though being in the country undocumented is a civil offense, like speeding or something. Still, using language alone, they made this the one offense that supposedly makes a person be “illegal” — textbook dehumanization btw.
So it’s legally on par with speeding, factually less dangerous than speeding, but somehow it’s seen as the worst “crime” in the country, so bad that they argue it warrants suspending due process like you’re at war or something. Manufactured delusion.
they made this the one offense that makes a person be “illegal”
It doesn’t make the person be illegal, but we nounify crimes to describe people who have committed said crime all the time.
The whole point of the “undocumented worker” language is to make it sound like someone who misplaced some paperwork, rather than someone who violated immigration law.
I mean, no one gets mad when you use the more common terms to describe an undocumented procurement specialist, an adverse euthanasia specialist or an unauthorized sexual partner. Despite those terms describing the person as being their violation of law.
For sure. I just meant that they intentionally and repeatedly use this wording to obscure the fact that undocumented status isn’t that big a problem (it doesn’t hurt anyone except maybe the undocumented person), as well as to reinforce the idea on a subconscious level that they’re somehow dangerous criminals.
When your knowledge of the constitution is based on vibes.
“The new trend ‘Vibe Governing’ is sweeping the nation as lawmakers just ask racist AIs with no knowledge of the bills they’re actually writing”
I… I did not have “Idiot politicians backed by bigoted LLMs” on my 2025 bingo card. This way too plausible to be ignored. So… thanks?
What’s embarrassing here is that I’ve been saying “co-bots not robots” for a while now. But no, not like that.
definition of a bad actor right there.
People like her argue in bad faith.
Shun and ostracize people like her.
Remove them from your civil social circles.
Only side eye!
I think I just caught a glimpse of the suffering of Americans who use, well, American social media. Y’all have it rough.
